There's probably no band in as unique and fortunate position as Oxford, England's pride and joy, Radiohead. In an increasingly homogenized and formulaic music business where hardly any pop- and R&B-centric labels or radio stations are willing to go out on a limb for some experimental space-rock outfit, these avant-garde pioneers somehow become more successful the more risks they take and the more envelopes they push--and it seems they're one of the few artists currently on a major label (or any label, for that matter) that do exactly what they want, with little interference from record-company accountants concerned with fourth-quarter returns.

But that doesn't mean Radiohead think all is fine and dandy with the industry. On the contrary, when the group's Thom Yorke (vocals) and Jonny Greenwood (guitar) were interviewed by LAUNCH managing editor Lyndsey Parker at New York's Electric Lady studios around the time of the release of their latest masterpiece, Hail To The Thief, they were more than willing to bite the hand that feeds them: Mincing no words as they discussed everything rotten about the music biz that urgently needs fixing, they also surprisingly advocated the Internet as the instrument of that change--unlike many of today's famously Napster-phobic artists.

Of course, Thom and Johnny also chatted about recording Hail To The Thief in sunny California, aging semi-gracefully, testing out their new songs on live audiences, and the pressure to top themselves artistically with every much-anticipated Radiohead release. But it's when they were asked about their opinions on music downloading and file-sharing, towards the end of the interview, that things really got going. So read on...

LAUNCH: How do you think recording this album in America--especially in a place like Los Angeles--affected the music? You'd never made an album in the U.S. before...

JONNY: It was good for us, I think. We recorded our last record in Copenhagen in the middle of winter, thinking that would be somehow the right environment for us, which turned out to be a slight...

THOM: Error!

JONNY: Yeah, a slightly inflated view of ourselves, thinking that's the kind of music that we make so we need that [environment]--which was nonsense.

THOM: Big mistake.

JONNY: So we went somewhere sunny and went indoors for two weeks recording. And it was great.

THOM: Quite glamorous, we did some glamorous things...

JONNY: Yeah, we went to a film premiere. Which was very bizarre. Everyone stays to the very end and watches all of the credits, and then applauds everyone in the credits, which was odd. It was funny.

THOM: The party was good. It was very glamorous. We went to L.A. for the glamour and the sunshine.

LAUNCH: So, it's safe to say that the making of this record was relatively stress-free, compared to past albums?

JONNY: We didn't really have time to be stressed about what we did. We got to the end of the second week before we even heard what we did on the first two days, and didn't even remember recording it or who was playing things. Which is a magical way of doing things. And yeah, it went past in a blur, really.

THOM: The initial stage--it got a bit messy toward the end.

JONNY: The other end is the mixing and the nitpicking, but those two weeks were really good. It kind of gave us the impetuous to finish it, I think.

THOM: We did a track a day, didn't we?

LAUNCH: I read a rumor that you were trying not to use computers on the record. Is that true?

THOM: No, we had a thing about being on the grid, about not being on the grid--we didn't want to be on the grid.

JONNY: It's complex to explain. We used computers, but we stopped using software in a way. It was a bit different.

THOM: [We stopped using] software to dictate the time. We kind of went retro. Certain clocks go out of time, and we went with the ones that go out of time.

LAUNCH: Is there a unifying instrument on this album? I know on OK Computer the Mellotron was used a lot, and on Kid A and Amnesiac, it was the ondes martenot. What about this time?

THOM: We were listening to Ennio Morricone...but was there a predominate instrument on this record, Jonny?

JONNY: No, we're just trying to treat all instruments the same and take them off the shelf when you need them, and try not to have any baggage attached to them. And I think we're getting there, which is nice.

THOM: Yeah, it was nice. It was a big issue when we were doing OK and Amnesiac: Like, "They're using drum machines!"

JONNY: Yeah, you feel that some instruments are more worthy than others--which is nonsense, really, just because of nostalgic reasons. Some of our computers are a few years old and some of our guitars are 11, 12 years old and...

THOM: Much older.

JONNY: His are much older.

THOM: Older than me!

JONNY: And the piano is very old. And hopefully they're on the same kind of level, in a way.

THOM: They should be.

LAUNCH: How about the fact that you played these songs live before you went into record them--how did that affect the record?

THOM: That was [guitarist] Ed [O'Brien]'s idea.

JONNY: That was just a healthy repetition of the material in a setting that helped us notice which songs were working and which parts needed to be cut out.

THOM: But the funny thing is, we were changing things quite a lot. So it wasn't like we were trying to rehearse every note of the songs. We knew roughly what was happening and we needed to see if people would be convinced. And sometimes we knew that things would absolutely stink and then we'd have to change them. It was just a way for us to making us work faster. We did that nutty thing: We booked this little tour where we actually didn't decide what we were going to play, because that was the only way that we were able to get it together fast enough. Certainly with me, I was writing stuff that I wouldn't normally write lyrically, 'cause I really didn't have time to think about it. Whatever I had, that was it--too late, tough.

LAUNCH: Tell me more about Morricone; you say he was an influence on this record?

THOM: No, no, on OK Computer.

LAUNCH: All right, then what was an influence on this record?

JONNY: In a way, we were listening to ourselves, 'cause it started with three months of rehearsing and we had CDs of every week's rehearsing, and...

THOM: There was the demos as well.

JONNY: And so we got excited about certain recordings and were listening to those.

THOM: I was listening to very little. You [Jonny] were thinking about it quite hard, and I was trying not to.

JONNY: Yeah, we were trying to get familiar with the songs, but not perfecting every note. A song is two different things in a way: It's something in your head, an idea, and everyone knows how the song goes and what would be a recording of it. And then you try to do it in the studio, I suppose.

LAUNCH: Is there pressure when you go into the studio now? I know it's a cliché question, but you must feel somewhat compelled to outdo yourselves with every album since with each release you sort of raise the bar for yourselves--especially with so many fans so excitedly anticipating your new album for months and months.

JONNY: I don't think we do anymore. We've playing good live concerts for the last four or five years, but it's only recently that we have the same sort of relaxed mood in the studio, being able to enjoy it and not be so uptight.

THOM: Personally, when I go to the studio now, whether it's our own studio or somewhere else, it's something I've been looking forward to for months. So I don't resent it in any way. I'm like, "Yes, yes, at last!"

JONNY: It's a great thing to do. At the end of the day you have something that didn't exist that morning. And it's something physical, something present, made by a collection of people. Out of nowhere, there's recording that you're really passionate about. And that's great.

THOM: And as to the anticipation thing, it's nonsense, really. It's funny; it won't last. It's quite a formative thing on this record. Like, Ed went to some award show in Britain--why? He went to the Brits, which is just awful, but he went, and normally at the Brits, we get the tables down in front; cameras used to be on us all the time, like, "Woo, we're really important!" And then you get a older, a little weirder, and then your table moves up toward the back, and the lights aren't as quite as strong, and then you reach the old-git stage. And so Ed came back from the Brits and he goes, "We're old gits!" And I kind of think that's more the truth. There's still anticipation [for our new albums], but I think we're entering the mad uncle/old git phase.

LAUNCH: It seems that every time you do put out a record there are these rumors that the album will be an OK Computer 2 or a return to the style of The Bends...

THOM: [laughing] We circulate these rumors as a marketing ploy to try and get back the people we've lost. Oh, and then we bring out some dirty trance record!

LAUNCH: The rumors start on fan sites long before there's any official music released. So how do you feel about the Internet, like people downloading and file-sharing your music?

JONNY: It's sort of a sign of people being into what you do, and also I think it's going to force people to come out with better records, records that are worth owning. Records that you have on a blank CD for a few months and you like so much that you want [to buy] it. Either that or you hate it, and you're glad you didn't spend money on it. So hopefully the quality of things will improve. You know, in the past, all of these records had two good songs and 10 rubbish ones. Maybe those days are over. We've got to be more optimistic about it.

THOM: I think that the reason that people circulate so much music on the Net is because they can't get access to it any other way, 'cause radio is bullsh-t, and that's the only kind of way you can do it. But I think that's going to change, 'cause I think once the digital radio thing kicks in, which is happening in Britain, the pressure from the Internet side of things will be quite different. I do find it quite amusing that the record industry chooses to blame the Internet for its demise, where everyone knows damn well it's because they're not flogging things that people want to buy, and because the whole music scene is all sewn up and really tired. And someone needs to drop a few stinkbombs or whatever to kick it back to right. And also, the other bit to the question that I wanted to say, is that it kind of pisses me off that when we make a record we have to wait three months before it comes out. And there just doesn't seem to be any good reason why. People say, "Well, you have to do interviews with lifestyle magazines and all this sort of thing." And I'm like, "Yeah, great, that'll really help!"

LAUNCH: You say that some band needs to drop a "stinkbomb" on the record industry, but some people would say Radiohead is the band that's done that--that's opened doors for other bands. For instance, like when you got radio play for "Paranoid Android," a single well over three minutes long that wasn't exactly a simple pop song...

THOM: Well, it's also kind of like that with [new single] "There, There": Radio took it from the Internet and started playing it! I was down with that! But you have a window of opportunity, and then you don't. We're trying to just carry on. We're not consciously trying to put people's noses out of joint or whatever, but we're aware of the fact we can sometimes get away with murder a little bit. And hopefully that will make a difference.

JONNY: But in thinking about that, we get away with it 'cause we're a known band, but to start out now as a band would be far more of a struggle. I mean, when we started out, we got funding from our record company to go out on tour--and they kept us out on tour with their funding for the first two years. And now because record companies aren't making money, that's stopping and they're relying on radio play and videos, which is kind of horrific to us.

THOM: It's the tail wagging the dog.

JONNY: Exactly, which is how it feels. And with the way that radio is going, that they're in charge of who breaks bands instead of concerts--we would have never left Oxford without tour funding! We would have never come to America. And that's sad, in a way.

THOM: And then they choose to blame the Internet. The bottom line is the shareholders are greedy, the companies themselves are poisoned and f--ked up, and if they go down...well, bye-bye, good riddance!